International Championship

Diabloz

@pajada - Wood 6 game 3 is stuck. I am getting option to play the first round again after couple of rounds have already been completed.

pajada

Diabloz are you sure? This game was started yesterday (17h ago), every Sunday another game will start, this is how this championship works.

Spence2102

I didn't get any notifications (on iOS) so I've timed out on my first two games. Apologies for this. I don't expect anything to be changed, but just wanted to make sure I don't get kicked out because of this!

pajada

Spence2102 hi, two time outs doesn't mean relegation, so you still have chance to fight in the remaining games, ut thank you for letting me know.

Goldan

@pajada

Every player who runs out of time will be placed last with score 0 points independently of the score of AI who replaced them (example for 3-player game: when AI won, it will receive 0 points and the better human player will receive 5 points, the worse human player 2 points).
This will not be reflected directly on this web, final standings will be done in Google Docs manually (after end of championship).

It looks like the developers finally made this work automatically? E.g. in Silver 6 game 1 deluks917 finished with more points than Marassi, but on the web Marassi is placed 2nd, because deluks917 timed out.
So the standings on the web now fully reflect the actual standings (probably except for end-of-tournament tiebreaks)?
If so, the last sentence from the quoted description can be probably removed?

pajada

Goldan yes, all the tiebreaker rules for International and Intermezzo are implemented and displayed on CGE web. I will fix the description accordingly. Thanks for reminding me.

ElChupacabra

@pajada game code: NUMEGUNA

I don't get the option to play a military action - game goes straight to action phase.

This is the third turn after I accepted to take cards with International Agreement (second that I'm not allowed to play military action even though I should be able to).

Please let me know if this can be fixed or if
you have any other questions.

pajada

ElChupacabra game should be fixed now.

ElChupacabra

Sorry, bad wording - I dont get to play political action (not military action as I wrote) - I guess it's understandable 🙂

ElChupacabra

pajada Yes it is. Thank you

DANeo

please remove me from the tournament. I am no longer willing to play and constantly experience kingmaking. maybe an unsolvable problem in 3p/4p; but some decisions to not resign in totally lost place are unacceptable for me.

Lemmingsplayer

DANeo I am really sorry to hear that. You're one of the best 2p players I know, and I was looking forward to seeing what you would bring to the table in 3p and 4p. I have had similar experiences in my IC games, and it is very natural to be frustrated by suboptimal or ill-intentioned plays from the opponents which can cost you valuable points. I really enjoyed your 2p streams and I hope to join you there again some time in the future. 🙂

DANeo

I do not assume ill intend at all; I merely don't wish to contemplate how humanity is a lost cause for 1h every time someone refuses to press the resign button and crown his attacker king of the game; (not resigning is only the most obvious kind of kingmaker; people putting in impacts which clearly favour one opponent when theyself are 100% last place is absolute common place, and it's obviously also imperative in these situations to not seed; or you accept that kingmaker is alright);
the control I have over the situation is to leave it, so I leave.

the game rules itself are to blame as well; for some inexplicable reason, resigning in age 4 is not allowed, which makes zero sense.

nevertheless, 3p and 4p can be very interesting if you assume only rational agents.

mm34nn

DANeo, I want to say something to make you feel better, but...
Let us back to the issue.

Resignation is the hardest part of revising tournament rules. How to define a rational agent is the core of the issue. I thought about it for years. Finally, I must accept that resignation in itself is more like a combination between emotional and rational. Neither purely rational nor purely emotional unless there is a referee as a "rational" existence to tell players "you must resign in this round".

WanderingWolf

Kinda sounds like you’re having a massive hissy fit over losing tbh. Yes, king making is annoying and it happens from time to time, and Ive certainly had the odd-win snatched from me by a military player doing 3 wars of culture in a row against a no-hoper. But its part of the game, there are a number of things you can do to mitigate it, its something you have to keep in mind at all times, imo the best players will rarely be affected by it… and like any 3+ player game, there will always be things beyond your control.

But to time out all your games and refuse to play because you didnt win is pretty self-indulgent and self-pitying. Now your opponents have to play the whole rest of the tournament against an AI and that sucks for everyone. You signed up for 7 games, so just play them out and dont sign up again next season. Or at least just resign….

Goldan

TtA is not chess; there is more luck and psychology involved. Just as in life, political leaders in TtA, especially when losing, are not always rational...and that is part of the game.
Also, we're playing in a league, so some decisions might be affected by the league standings. And unless they break the tournament rules, that's part of the game as well.

vaLfizzL

To be honest, your opponent did not violate the rules, so get over it, it is part of the game.
In rare cases not resigning even benefits in a miracle third place. I was myself in that position once and I was happy not to resign.
If you cannot manage to control your feelings when someone refuses to resign (in my opinion running out of time on purpose in all of your games like you did is a lot more unsportmanslike) you should not play 3p/4p games competitvely. Like you said play with rational agents in your friendlist.

DANeo

I did not run out of time, I left the games. it affects everyone equally.

there is a difference between being in a 100% lost position and being in a 'likely' lost position; if one can't tell, keeping on playing is off course the right thing to do.
but if one can't see that the game is lost one round before the end of the game while being dead last in culture and losing a war with 50 strength difference, that is another story; and I also thought: this won't happen regularly, but I experienced these things several times in just a few seasons.

'you should not play 3p/4p games competitvely'

that's exactly my conclusion, thanks for repeating it to me.

pajada

DANeo let me take this opportunity to emphasize one part of the rules:
In case you don't want to play game anymore wait until your turn and resign as an political action - this way you will be removed from the game, pacts with you will be cancelled, wars resolved, future civil and military decks adjusted to the new player count. You can't resign in round 1 and 2 (political action is skipped) and in Age IV (game rules).
Please don't abandon the game immediately (this is what you have done) as it only replace you by Artificial Intelligence Bot and players in higher divisions don't like to play against AI as it is weak and does questionable plays.

Goldan

It's interesting that usually the complaint is the opposite: military players get just 7 culture when the opponent resigns, and it ruins their game plan. In this situation, a third player is not happy when a weak player does not resign to a military player, "kingmaking" him. So resign or not resign, someone is not going to like it.